So it’s finally dawning on the government that a tightening of immigration control in Britain will lead to an influx of ” illegals ” into Ireland.
I have news for them – it’s already happening both illegal and legal and it is already having an effect on Ireland’s already overburdened schools,hospitals and benefits system.
It’s a regular melting pot of accents and a wonderful kaleidescope of nationalities you hear when passing my local benefits office.
When that influx becomes a deluge of people prepared to settle for a Poundshop version of what they can no longer get in Blighty you’re going to hear the word Irexit a lot more often.
By then,it will be too late but do enjoy the bumpy ride and please excuse that fine German word schadenfreude and the laughter coming this way across the Irish Sea.
Perhaps he is “not a good person” but that does not mean he is wrong.
It is a zero-sum game, public services like health, housing, education etc. are overstretched as things are. The vast majority of migrants are dependent on resources supplied by the taxpayer. The same resources cannot be used to improve already existing services.
Then there is the problem of overcrowding. It’s unpopular to say but many towns, cities and villages have experienced 50 to 75% population growth over the past 2 decades. Roads, housing and infrastructure were simply not designed to cope with the increased strain.
There also seems to be no end in sight to the numbers of people coming here. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/refugee-reunification-scheme-opens-to-bring-family-members-to-ireland-1.3492313
Rob_G
From your link – ‘that will allow up to 530 refugees join family members in Ireland’
– wow, (up to) 530 people?! We will be bursting at the seams!
After years of net outward migration, we are again experiencing net inward migration – but the figures are quite low (+ 20,000). Room for plenty more for the next while.
@Ollie – try not to worry; just be patient, and you will get to the counter and pick up your scratcher eventually ;)
I can’t see the non-EU nationals broken down country-by-country, but from strolling around town, I would guess that a large proportion of these would be from Brazil.
Johnny
Flummoxed-huh !
Stick the the poor taste jokes about the less well off.
Well, it was the CSO that included them, not me. Why would returning Irish not be included?
johnny
We can explore this if you like Rob or you could just quietly slink away-but in the context of this discussion its akin to stating peoples preference for hot or cold beverages and about as useful.
What does ‘room for plenty more’ actually mean Rob-plenty more what ?
“After years of net outward migration, we are again experiencing net inward migration – but the figures are quite low (+ 20,000). Room for plenty more for the next while.”
Rob_G
I don’t understand the point you are making.
john f was talking about some sort of immigration apocalypse; my point is that the figures of inward migration are quite low. I don’t understand your taking issue with including Irish people returning in those numbers.
johnny
Rob-the figure /stat you used is useless-John F clearly states migrants-you simply used the wrong number-happpens move on,it happened me on another tread,its boring at this point.
“Population growth of 52,900 in the year to April 2017, the largest annual increase since 2008 Ireland’s usually resident population was estimated to be 4,792,500 in April 2017. The population is estimated to have grown by 52,900 persons in the year to April 2017.
84,600 persons immigrated to Ireland in the year to April 2017, of these, 27,400 (32.4%) were returning Irish nationals.Of the 64,800 people who emigrated from Ireland in the year to April 2017, 30,800 (47.5%) are estimated to be Irish nationals.Net outward migration of Irish nationals was estimated to be -3,400 in 2017, a decrease of 88.5% on 2012 when net outward migration of Irish nationals peaked at -29,600.
Net inward migration among non-Irish nationals remained strong and was estimated to be +23,200 in 2017.In April 2017, 42,100 (55.5%) immigrants aged 15+ were in employment.”
link above
Rob_G
No, I didn’t.
JF mentioned “public services like health, housing, education…” – are returning Irish emigrants somehow completely self-sufficient and don’t need to avail of any of the above? I know several people who have moved back to Dublin and had difficulty finding flats.
I think it is more the case that you wanted to pick an argument with me following previous disagreements – life is too short. I am sure we will disagree on things in future and argue the toss then; there is no point in going out of our way to look for things to argue about, however.
Ollie Cromwell
The Lord Mayor of the City, Charles Bowman today confirmed that job losses in the Square Mile due to Brexit are likely to be around 10% of the 75,000 forecast in 2016 by Project Fear,including the then Chancellor George Osborne.
Don’t expect to see that reported in the Irish wing of the Project Fear 2:0 movement the Irish Times tomorrow particularly by their economics ” expert ” Chris – There’ll be an immediate UK recession and half a million jobs lost after the Brexit vote – Johns.
Listrade
Are British accents part of that kaleidoscope? There’s over 11.000 British citizens claiming welfare in Ireland (about 2,000 Irish claiming welfare in Britain…seems a bit rum that you’d be 5 times higher sponging off us). Oh and while they may well queue in a very orderly fashion, there’s another 6000 in Germany, 3000 in France and Spain and 2000 in Italy. That’s a lot of people waiting behind the red ropes. Overall for every 100 brits abroad, 2.5 are claiming benefits. That’s about 65,000 brits sponging off the EU.
Maybe the schadenfreude will be from the impact of getting rid of those EU nationals claiming benefits and them migrating away. But looks like we’ll have some spare capacity once all the brits stop leaching off our generosity. Oh and how many EU nationals claim welfare in britiain? Roughly 65,000. Um, pretty much the exact same number of brits who will have to come home and sign on.
I’ll listen in the wind for the laughter coming across the Irish Sea.
Ollie Cromwell
There are some lovely houses springing up in Albania and Romania thanks to the munificence and largesse of the Irish taxpayer.
And once large numbers of those one million “economic” migrants from the Middle East and Africa currently causing social problems across Europe become EU citizens and earn the right to automatic entry into Ireland things will get really tasty.
Immigration is swamping Irish infrastructure already and the taps haven’t even been turned on fully yet -the only reason it isn’t a full grown crisis is that nearly a million Irish-born people prefer the economic security blanket of the UK to their own country.
In the event of even a tenth of those exercising their right to come home joining the growing numbers of non-nationals arriving and Ireland will suffer the perfect storm.
That eight hour wait you currently experience in A&E will seem like a holiday.
And if and when the snowflakes on here finally have kids watch the fun when they try to get them a place in their local school.
Ireland attitudes to immigration are already worse than the European average. http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-immigration-attitudes-3930048-Mar2018/
ReproButina
Blah blah racism blah blah racist dog whistling blah blah.
Ollie Cromwell
Racist you say ?
According to the ESRI report mentioned above attitudes towards Muslims and Roma immigrants are already worse in Ireland than they are in the UK.
Heh,heh,heh.
ReproButina
I can totally understand why that cheers a racist like yourself.
Brother Barnabas
ollie, genuine question: do you ever feel you might need to expand your interests?
bisted
…like English soccer?
Brother Barnabas
move on, kiddo
Ollie Cromwell
I’m not a huge fan of the English Premier League.
Unlike all my Irish chums.
millie st murderlark
So what exactly are your interests? Aside from your usual stand up comedy gig here.
Ollie Cromwell
Wine,women and song.
Is there anything else ?
Papi
Rabid racism and delusions of grandeur?
Listrade
Who’s building houses in Albania? Albania isn’t part of the EU. Ergo, no freedom of movement for Albanians.
“Middle East and Africa currently causing social problems across Europe become EU citizens”
Chime the bells of doom (or the dog whistle). But quick bit of information, you don’t just become an EU citizen. You have to be nationalised in the country you are in in order that then get rights as an EU citizen. Which isn’t that easy as we found out with the absolutely not at all racist attempt to deport the Windrush generation. In Germany it is 8 years (plus conditions). Most are 5 years, but with conditions. So yeah, let’s see that one happen.
Ollie Cromwell
Yup.
The migrant crisis started in 2014 – so within the next year or two huge numbers of migrants from Iraq,Afghanistan,Syria,Eritrea,Somalia,Niger and Kosovo could well have the automatic right to move to Ireland where by law they must be housed and are entitled to all aspects of the benefits system.
Glad you’re chillaxed at the prospect.
ReproButina
“Wah! The immigrants and coming! The immigrants are coming!” screams the racist son of an immigrant.
Listrade
Chilaxed because you’re arguing from a position of ignorance and letting overt racism bleed though into your statements.
Refugees and Asylum seekers are not the same as immigrants. Nationalization requires residency. As we know from direct provision, it isn’t residency and so we can let them fester away in a holding centre for as long as we want and they don’t get a claim on citizenship.
However, those immigrants who went through a visa process or were successfully awarded asylum, were allowed to work and live and did so for the required period of time can (based on other criteria depending on the state) apply for nationalization.
And as stated above, once all the 11,000 brits lose their right to claim welfare and all aspects of the benefits system next year, we’ll have capacity for a few more anyway.
Ollie Cromwell
No problem.
But thanks for the one million Irish people forced to travel to Blighty to contribute towards our booming economy.
Such a shame they’re not back home building the Irish economy – still,you’ve replaced them with non-nationals prepared to work for low wages which basically keeps pay and standards down for everyone else.
Up the revolution !
Nigel
Up free movement of people.
Listrade
“But thanks for the one million Irish people forced to travel to Blighty to contribute towards our booming economy.”
One Million? Over what time period?
Nigel
‘Project Fear Of Immigrants.’
Ron
Ollie you are absolutely correct in terms of what you are saying. The usual gobpoos on this aren’t smart enough to understand it.
Varadkar out promising again. Short term escape from the spotlight, because we will see once again, very soon, another pull back from what he has told Vicky Phelan. And then we will get a long diversionary post from Cian.
Lilly
‘Naughty house’… d’Examiner turning into Horrid Henry.
Bodger
Lilly, while you’re there. We have selected your non-fiction choice for de list but we need you to flesh out your reasons should that suit? We’ve tried your email with no success. Broadsheet@broadsheet.ie if you are interested. Thank you.
Paranoid stuff – the link isn’t working, but perhaps the govt in 2018 has a different policy to a different govt in 2014(?)
GiggidyGoo
Same lot running the show. Same sneakiness. Nothing paranoid about it. Like IW when they initially had on their website about transferring data outside the EU, and then removed it. Or their plans for privatisation which the EU copped.
How paranoid is it to be suspicious if anything the boy Varadkar says or does?
GiggidyGoo
The link works alright
Rob_G
indeed you are right, my mistake
Andyourpointiswhatexactly?
My Mum worked it out. €2 an hour, she thinks. Which is too much to pay the aul bag, I told her.
In separate news I was going to go to West Cork this weekend but am no longer invited.
B.BLACK
Re Daily Telegraph: Lord Buckethead has let himself go.
So it’s finally dawning on the government that a tightening of immigration control in Britain will lead to an influx of ” illegals ” into Ireland.
I have news for them – it’s already happening both illegal and legal and it is already having an effect on Ireland’s already overburdened schools,hospitals and benefits system.
It’s a regular melting pot of accents and a wonderful kaleidescope of nationalities you hear when passing my local benefits office.
When that influx becomes a deluge of people prepared to settle for a Poundshop version of what they can no longer get in Blighty you’re going to hear the word Irexit a lot more often.
By then,it will be too late but do enjoy the bumpy ride and please excuse that fine German word schadenfreude and the laughter coming this way across the Irish Sea.
You are not a good person.
Perhaps he is “not a good person” but that does not mean he is wrong.
It is a zero-sum game, public services like health, housing, education etc. are overstretched as things are. The vast majority of migrants are dependent on resources supplied by the taxpayer. The same resources cannot be used to improve already existing services.
Then there is the problem of overcrowding. It’s unpopular to say but many towns, cities and villages have experienced 50 to 75% population growth over the past 2 decades. Roads, housing and infrastructure were simply not designed to cope with the increased strain.
There also seems to be no end in sight to the numbers of people coming here.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/refugee-reunification-scheme-opens-to-bring-family-members-to-ireland-1.3492313
From your link – ‘that will allow up to 530 refugees join family members in Ireland’
– wow, (up to) 530 people?! We will be bursting at the seams!
After years of net outward migration, we are again experiencing net inward migration – but the figures are quite low (+ 20,000). Room for plenty more for the next while.
@Ollie – try not to worry; just be patient, and you will get to the counter and pick up your scratcher eventually ;)
Is that non-EU nationals ?
No, that’s the total – non-EU is 16k.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2017/
I can’t see the non-EU nationals broken down country-by-country, but from strolling around town, I would guess that a large proportion of these would be from Brazil.
Flummoxed-huh !
Stick the the poor taste jokes about the less well off.
Why are you including Irish nationals returning ?
“Non Irish-nationals from outside the EU continued to display strong migration flows, accounting for 29,400 (34.8%) of total immigrants and 13,700 (21.1%) of total emigrants”
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2017/
“Non Irish-nationals from outside the EU continued to display strong migration flows, accounting for 31,800 (40.1%) of total immigrants and 18,500 (24.3%) of total emigrants”
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2016/
Well, it was the CSO that included them, not me. Why would returning Irish not be included?
We can explore this if you like Rob or you could just quietly slink away-but in the context of this discussion its akin to stating peoples preference for hot or cold beverages and about as useful.
What does ‘room for plenty more’ actually mean Rob-plenty more what ?
“After years of net outward migration, we are again experiencing net inward migration – but the figures are quite low (+ 20,000). Room for plenty more for the next while.”
I don’t understand the point you are making.
john f was talking about some sort of immigration apocalypse; my point is that the figures of inward migration are quite low. I don’t understand your taking issue with including Irish people returning in those numbers.
Rob-the figure /stat you used is useless-John F clearly states migrants-you simply used the wrong number-happpens move on,it happened me on another tread,its boring at this point.
“Population growth of 52,900 in the year to April 2017, the largest annual increase since 2008 Ireland’s usually resident population was estimated to be 4,792,500 in April 2017. The population is estimated to have grown by 52,900 persons in the year to April 2017.
84,600 persons immigrated to Ireland in the year to April 2017, of these, 27,400 (32.4%) were returning Irish nationals.Of the 64,800 people who emigrated from Ireland in the year to April 2017, 30,800 (47.5%) are estimated to be Irish nationals.Net outward migration of Irish nationals was estimated to be -3,400 in 2017, a decrease of 88.5% on 2012 when net outward migration of Irish nationals peaked at -29,600.
Net inward migration among non-Irish nationals remained strong and was estimated to be +23,200 in 2017.In April 2017, 42,100 (55.5%) immigrants aged 15+ were in employment.”
link above
No, I didn’t.
JF mentioned “public services like health, housing, education…” – are returning Irish emigrants somehow completely self-sufficient and don’t need to avail of any of the above? I know several people who have moved back to Dublin and had difficulty finding flats.
I think it is more the case that you wanted to pick an argument with me following previous disagreements – life is too short. I am sure we will disagree on things in future and argue the toss then; there is no point in going out of our way to look for things to argue about, however.
The Lord Mayor of the City, Charles Bowman today confirmed that job losses in the Square Mile due to Brexit are likely to be around 10% of the 75,000 forecast in 2016 by Project Fear,including the then Chancellor George Osborne.
Don’t expect to see that reported in the Irish wing of the Project Fear 2:0 movement the Irish Times tomorrow particularly by their economics ” expert ” Chris – There’ll be an immediate UK recession and half a million jobs lost after the Brexit vote – Johns.
Are British accents part of that kaleidoscope? There’s over 11.000 British citizens claiming welfare in Ireland (about 2,000 Irish claiming welfare in Britain…seems a bit rum that you’d be 5 times higher sponging off us). Oh and while they may well queue in a very orderly fashion, there’s another 6000 in Germany, 3000 in France and Spain and 2000 in Italy. That’s a lot of people waiting behind the red ropes. Overall for every 100 brits abroad, 2.5 are claiming benefits. That’s about 65,000 brits sponging off the EU.
Maybe the schadenfreude will be from the impact of getting rid of those EU nationals claiming benefits and them migrating away. But looks like we’ll have some spare capacity once all the brits stop leaching off our generosity. Oh and how many EU nationals claim welfare in britiain? Roughly 65,000. Um, pretty much the exact same number of brits who will have to come home and sign on.
I’ll listen in the wind for the laughter coming across the Irish Sea.
There are some lovely houses springing up in Albania and Romania thanks to the munificence and largesse of the Irish taxpayer.
And once large numbers of those one million “economic” migrants from the Middle East and Africa currently causing social problems across Europe become EU citizens and earn the right to automatic entry into Ireland things will get really tasty.
Immigration is swamping Irish infrastructure already and the taps haven’t even been turned on fully yet -the only reason it isn’t a full grown crisis is that nearly a million Irish-born people prefer the economic security blanket of the UK to their own country.
In the event of even a tenth of those exercising their right to come home joining the growing numbers of non-nationals arriving and Ireland will suffer the perfect storm.
That eight hour wait you currently experience in A&E will seem like a holiday.
And if and when the snowflakes on here finally have kids watch the fun when they try to get them a place in their local school.
Ireland attitudes to immigration are already worse than the European average.
http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-immigration-attitudes-3930048-Mar2018/
Blah blah racism blah blah racist dog whistling blah blah.
Racist you say ?
According to the ESRI report mentioned above attitudes towards Muslims and Roma immigrants are already worse in Ireland than they are in the UK.
Heh,heh,heh.
I can totally understand why that cheers a racist like yourself.
ollie, genuine question: do you ever feel you might need to expand your interests?
…like English soccer?
move on, kiddo
I’m not a huge fan of the English Premier League.
Unlike all my Irish chums.
So what exactly are your interests? Aside from your usual stand up comedy gig here.
Wine,women and song.
Is there anything else ?
Rabid racism and delusions of grandeur?
Who’s building houses in Albania? Albania isn’t part of the EU. Ergo, no freedom of movement for Albanians.
“Middle East and Africa currently causing social problems across Europe become EU citizens”
Chime the bells of doom (or the dog whistle). But quick bit of information, you don’t just become an EU citizen. You have to be nationalised in the country you are in in order that then get rights as an EU citizen. Which isn’t that easy as we found out with the absolutely not at all racist attempt to deport the Windrush generation. In Germany it is 8 years (plus conditions). Most are 5 years, but with conditions. So yeah, let’s see that one happen.
Yup.
The migrant crisis started in 2014 – so within the next year or two huge numbers of migrants from Iraq,Afghanistan,Syria,Eritrea,Somalia,Niger and Kosovo could well have the automatic right to move to Ireland where by law they must be housed and are entitled to all aspects of the benefits system.
Glad you’re chillaxed at the prospect.
“Wah! The immigrants and coming! The immigrants are coming!” screams the racist son of an immigrant.
Chilaxed because you’re arguing from a position of ignorance and letting overt racism bleed though into your statements.
Refugees and Asylum seekers are not the same as immigrants. Nationalization requires residency. As we know from direct provision, it isn’t residency and so we can let them fester away in a holding centre for as long as we want and they don’t get a claim on citizenship.
However, those immigrants who went through a visa process or were successfully awarded asylum, were allowed to work and live and did so for the required period of time can (based on other criteria depending on the state) apply for nationalization.
And as stated above, once all the 11,000 brits lose their right to claim welfare and all aspects of the benefits system next year, we’ll have capacity for a few more anyway.
No problem.
But thanks for the one million Irish people forced to travel to Blighty to contribute towards our booming economy.
Such a shame they’re not back home building the Irish economy – still,you’ve replaced them with non-nationals prepared to work for low wages which basically keeps pay and standards down for everyone else.
Up the revolution !
Up free movement of people.
“But thanks for the one million Irish people forced to travel to Blighty to contribute towards our booming economy.”
One Million? Over what time period?
‘Project Fear Of Immigrants.’
Ollie you are absolutely correct in terms of what you are saying. The usual gobpoos on this aren’t smart enough to understand it.
Nigel leading the charge …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOOs8MaR1YM
Varadkar out promising again. Short term escape from the spotlight, because we will see once again, very soon, another pull back from what he has told Vicky Phelan. And then we will get a long diversionary post from Cian.
‘Naughty house’… d’Examiner turning into Horrid Henry.
Lilly, while you’re there. We have selected your non-fiction choice for de list but we need you to flesh out your reasons should that suit? We’ve tried your email with no success. Broadsheet@broadsheet.ie if you are interested. Thank you.
…Leo would be proud of you at this hour Bodger…
So €1000 for grandpeople? Either a lie, or if true a ploy to see who is doing it and eventually force them to ‘register’ as child minders, and pay tax.
Nothing this lot do is for the good of the individual.
2014. https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/revenue-set-tie-grandparents-up-3222274
Can’t you get a certain amount tax free anyway?
Paranoid stuff – the link isn’t working, but perhaps the govt in 2018 has a different policy to a different govt in 2014(?)
Same lot running the show. Same sneakiness. Nothing paranoid about it. Like IW when they initially had on their website about transferring data outside the EU, and then removed it. Or their plans for privatisation which the EU copped.
How paranoid is it to be suspicious if anything the boy Varadkar says or does?
The link works alright
indeed you are right, my mistake
My Mum worked it out. €2 an hour, she thinks. Which is too much to pay the aul bag, I told her.
In separate news I was going to go to West Cork this weekend but am no longer invited.
Re Daily Telegraph: Lord Buckethead has let himself go.